Taxi's Articles

What now, Einstein?

THE ‘ROUNDTABLE’ SAGA CONTINUES…

Okay, so the word is now out.  JVP and EtO leaderships are supremist scumbags that have been operating with a sub-agenda that protects zionists and jewish reputations, not the primary victim nation of Palestine – and most certainly not the interests of our country.

Almost a week later and not a pip-squeak from either leadership or their egghead primo supporters as to where we go from here.  So we just stand now either side of the drawn line in the sand and… do exactly what?  Ogle and dart hostilities at each other?   Shout at each other and make rude gestures across the dividing line?  What the…?!!!

How do we stop JVP’s leadership from banning Alison Weir’s public talks and book tours?   How do we get a peaceful resolution to this crisis when JVP are refusing negotiations, apologies, or change of tactic?  What to do when the bad apple refuses to leave the basket? Clings for dear life to the basket.   Who’s hand will pick and chuck it out?  We need some practical ideas circulating on this.  If anyone has any, please do share them here in the comments section.

Time is of the essence and to just leave the poisoned air of division hanging suspended overhead with no resolution, only serves to distract and weaken us – only serves the enemy.  The virus has been diagnosed and located, but apparently there is no cure for it?  No way of either weakening or dislodging it?

Please say it isn’t so!

The purpose of this article is really to give a platform for discussing “what now”?  The whole solidarity movement with its growing multitude of varying chapters and individuals should now focus on this point.  Enough of JVP said this and did that – we’ve all seen their skulduggery by now and therefore it’s a waste of time at this stage to repeat and repeat them again.

How to dis-empower JVP, how to weaken their hold on the Palestine narrative – and how to put a stop to their thought-policing and smear campaigns against activists is begging discussion here.

More importantly, what can we do to stop JVP from doing the same nasty to other brilliant voices in the movement in the future?

I’m just a lone voice here – I mean I am not a member of a specific pro Palestine group so I’m really not privy to the workings and inter-relationship machinations between group and group in the movement.  I don’t know their internal power structures and group systems etc.  I feel that I’m a member of the whole collective and not of an individual entity or group within the movement.   This is why I would appreciate an education on all this from activist insiders who visit Plato’s.   An education for me and an education for other readers like me who have no specific affiliations to activist groups but are just simply 100% pro Palestine.

I don’t have an answer to “what now?”, post ‘Roundtable’, but I may come upon one if I had more information on hand, or was offered other people’s solution ideas for contemplation and brainstorming on.

We absolutely must start talking about how to bypass JVP’s powers within the community and proceed forward, without gatekeepers, to where much work for Palestine is waiting to be done.

I’m passing the microphone to all you informed-better-than-me readers:  what is your answer to “what now”?

We need an Einstein to step on stage.

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0 comments:

  1. american200 says:

    “what now”?

    Was it Einstein who said the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results?
    If not. whoever said it described the world’s approach to the Israel problem accurately.

    IMO, and I said this long ago, playing ‘defense’, which is what everyone does with I-Jewish groups, trying to defend themselves from their accusations of racism or anti Semitism , is futile.
    Should be playing offense instead, go on the attack and paper them in accusations. That they are dedicated to saving Israel, US Jewish status and US support for Israel first and foremost–and therefore ineffective in actually freeing Palestine because they wont go for the US support jugular is a obvious and a true accusation. And that they use character assassinations and slandering of others to preserve their ‘primary’ goals is also a true accusation.

    And btw, NOT being members of a ‘organized group’ aligned with those like JVP makes the offense tactic even more effective. The difference in them having to go after a thousand moving targets instead of just one.

    • The problem with the straight-up ‘offensive’ posture is that you can swear up a storm till the cows come home and besmirch JVP leadership till you’re blue in the face, but just like israel, they don’t seem to care about their reputation so long as they get to keep their little pot of gold (power).

      The only way I see right now is for the inner JVP dissenters to take a strong stand, collect some signatures from other dissenting members and chapters and demand the leadership step down.

      We can’t exactly line up the JVP leadership against the wall and they don’t give a fuck about what we think of them. So it must then come from within. No?

      Can members of JVP mutiny against a their treasonous and racist leaders? Do they have rules against that, or is that allowed in the JVP manifesto?

      • american200 says:

        Its never going to come from ‘within’.
        They’ve had 70 years to come from within and the best they can do is “Support Israel/Free Palestine’?
        The solution will never come from the Jewish groups.

        They will continue to jack around with their ‘BDS the illegal Israeli settlements instead of ‘Sanctions on Israel’ and no US vetoes at the UN for Israel.
        And continue to assassinate any America voices like Weir who goes after the real problem.

        At best they, like the other BDs movements, contribute to public ‘awareness’ of I/P—-BUT to date none of them have made effective inroads into the politicians—-which is where the problem and the solution resides.

        Netanyahu aroused more attention and outrage about Israel among the general public for fucking with the WH and congress and US political business than all the x years of BDSing and Jewish peace groups.

        The truth is that the public is bombarded 24/7/365 with appeals to defeat injustice, save the children, save the earth, save this or save that….all competing for the publics limited time and money and general inattention to anything that doesn’t directly impact their everyday lives. I/P BDS is one among x dozens. And the sad fact is that most people ‘react’ more strongly and some only to direct threats to their own, their families, or their own country’s welfare than they do to something that doesn’t touch or affect them directly.

        I don’t want to come across as a know- it -all on this but I do think one has to be a or understand ‘ordinary’ Americans, meaning in part Americans who rarely if ever pay attention to foreign policy, to understand what hot buttons to push in the ‘American street’ to activate their ire and get them moving en mass on Isr-USA-I/P.

        The Jewish groups will do anything to avoid having that hot button pushed.
        The one that tells Americans how their families welfare/their own communities are threaten and have actually already lost out to the I-Firstdom in US government.
        This what the Jewish group are afraid of.
        So push it.
        Because you are not going to be able to ‘change them’ any more than they can change Israel. You have to defeat their ‘special minority foreign interest’ with American pressure/outrage on congress and the politicians.

      • “The solution will never come from the Jewish groups.” (American)

        Why do Jewish groups have to fight the Palestinians’ battles for them? Shouldn’t it be Arab groups first and foremost with Palestinians at their head. JVP is actually chickenshit when compared to other pro-Zionist groups. Going after JVP rather than the really big ones is as American describes going after the settlements rather than after Israel itself, a diversion.

    • Any criticism of the Zionist operation is met with condemnation from a multitude of agencies. It’s like if a politician or a reporter gets some airwaves to a large audience they are crushed (Helen Thomas, Rick Sanchez). Does anyone in the politcal sphere dare mention the racket that is zionism and Israel occupation? Yet it’s one big open secret on the power of Zionism. Been that way for decades. They have endless cash to crush their enemies.

      Zionism is like a giant global corporation and Israel is the asset that’s closet to their heart. They’ve even got traitor Mike Huckabee saying in Israel yesterday how the West Bank is Israeli property. Why not hide in the shadows and let the pawns do all the work?
      It’s worked for decades.

      I can’t wait to hear to media ask Donald Trump about the Middle East. We’ll see the man who speaks his mind, adhere to the established orthodoxy. He won’t say jack about it and probably praise Yahu.

      • Denis says:

        Yeah, well I wouldn’t wait up for Trump to cut ties with GoI if the universe goes all funny and he gets elected.
        .
        He’s already made it clear how much he loves “the Jews” and how he can “do business” with Israel. Haven’t heard him say yet whether he can do business with Palestine. We can only speculate as to whether Trump’s doing business with “the Jews” includes the Israeli mafia. Watch how many shekels flows into his campaign kitty from, say, Nevada.
        .
        BTW, Trump’s daughter, Ivanka, is a converted Orthodox Jew. She married into the billionaire Kushner brood. Her husband, Jared, owns the NY Observer. I have read comments of Donnie-boy extolling their orthodox life-style.

        Don’t wait up.

      • american200 says:

        Trump will use the standard spin of supporting ‘our ally’.

        If you make enough fun of him for being such a wimpy loser he cant out negotiate a bunch of Israeli US welfare clients it might pierce his ego so bad he could be turned on them.

  2. AbuMalia says:

    I am not JVP insider and would never join such a group but I can see the need and the fierce urgency to marginalize them – this initiative has to be led front and center by prominent Palestinians in the US and supported by Palestinian orgs. They would have to be the ones that say, thanks but no thanks to JVP. When it comes to Palestine, let me say this without equivocation, zionist Jews (liberal or otherwise) are the problem and to look at them for a solution is a mistake.

    As for the enemy laughing at us (i presume the enemy here to be zionists), my dear Taxi, as far as Palestine is concerned, JVP is the enemy – more insidious than the right wing zios.

    In addition, it is my believe that AW is on to something – has hit a critical nerve hence all the brouhaha about her. She is attacking the soft underbelly of zionist power. Americans don’t need to be persuaded they just need to be informed and this is her niche – you want to take your country back? Well, it is not the black guy who stole it, it is the zionists.

    I can’t believe i am proposing this (as i abhor nationalism of all sorts) but those of us who are Americans (I am not) should wrap themselves in the flag for cover and attack the J-groups for anti-Americanism. The POTUS stated it would have been an “abrogation of his constitutional duties to defer to Israel” on the Iran deal – take a hint and charge.

    It truly is in American national interest to find a solution to the I/P issue and those who are preventing it are therefore hurting American interest. That they’re doing it (not for greed which is a virtue in America) for a foreign country should be emphasized.

    Where does Ali Abunimah stand on this btw? I better go on over to EI!

    • Abu Malia, completely agree with the reasons, needs, and goals you all lay out, but fwiw I’d be a little less direct about the methods. Less splintering, radial movement energy means more goal-oriented, axial movement energy. More calm-assertive leadership/direction and less punishment (not a dig, just the polar choices imo) preserves what little movement inertia remains at the moment.

      Setting aside for a sec the equally difficult parallel problem that a large portion of the US Palestinians in movement leadership seem to agree with JVP objectives and tactics, Palestinians should set the priorities/rules of participation with the explicit declaration #1 that Palestinian justice is the overriding, (but not exclusive to be political as possible) and present them to allying groups on an “in or out” basis.

      As a starting point, I’d demand and GET an explanation (with subsequent deliberations) from ETO as an umbrella group (forget about JVP) using the context of the new 9-1 evidence and explanations from the MW thread. That’s as close to a broad-based membership poll as exists on this and would counter the current apparently perceived need for and/or validity of “management by politburo.”

      Finally, and I’m sure someone’s already said this, open up the funds flow to public scrutiny. If all this is funded as show, none of this matters and it’s start over time.

      There’s a USCEIO National conference in Atlanta, Sept. 25-27. Might be a good place and time to start [to attempt] correcting. It might be well worth the price of admission for the entertainment value alone, but something constructive might be accomplished as well. In any event, it’s an available near-term forum.

      Folding back in the seeming agreement with JVP priorities and goals by a sizeable chunk of US Palestinian leadership, it’s hard to see how any of this happens short of starting from scratch.

      PS. If Weir’s speaking opportunities are actively being smear-constrained by these groups, organizing a coordinated pushback effort would be very useful in containing the “JVP effect.”

      • All excellent suggestions Fritz. You have organizational skills and a practical sensibility. A savvy galvanizer can take your ideas and run to the finish line.

  3. What you say is so very true, Abu Malia. You’re on the same page as American. It would be the height of folly to expect or even to wait for American jewery, well-meaning or not, to save the skinny ass of Palestine and the fat ass of America.

    The problem is, you may sadly find that some Palestinians feel the ‘need’ to work with Jewish organizations for one reason or another. Ali Abuminah? I’m not really so sure that he’s the man for the job. There’s a little Abass in him that I don’t trust one bit.

    But yeah – major American Palestinian voices need to step forward and tell the motherfucking JVP to step the fuck aside and leave Palestine well alone.

  4. AbuMalia says:

    You are right Taxi, I am with American 200 on this. What I think would help is some kind of a “normal American” whisperer. Someone who is able to tap into to the jingoistic vein of Dick and Jane and appeal to their pride – you’ve been taken over, wake the fuck up! And, do it unapologetically. This is what AW is doing and why she must be silenced.

    Such a person would of course need to be able to weather the inevitable howls of antisemitism. I’d bet the farm there are countless WASPs and African Americans too in government, media, military and business who are aware of what had befallen their country and blue in the face with resentment. Think of all the FBI special agents who’s investigations (into espionage and other illegalities) are squashed by political appointees or congress critters.

    I remember when Collin Powell derisively called them the “Jinsa crowd” – imagine how he feels about been used. I bet even those congress critters who were jumping up and down when Nutty was addressing them are, deep down, humiliated and resentful – they wouldn’t be human if they weren’t.

    I am no student of history (hell or of anything else for that matter being barely literate) but I have heard here and there that the Jewish tribe have been expelled from various nations over the centuries – I am starting to form my own conclusions about why that has happened based on current behavior.

    So yes, the road to a free Jerusalem runs thru (free) Washington to use one of their analogies.

    • american200 says:

      Someone who is able to tap into to the jingoistic vein of Dick and Jane and appeal to their pride – you’ve been taken over, wake the fuck up! And, do it unapologetically. This is what AW is doing and why she must be silenced.’…..

      Exactly right AbuMalia.

  5. I am looking for a few good ex-jews. “Recovering Catholic” is a common and socially approved statement. We need more “Recovering Jews” like Gilad Atzmon, Mordici Vannunu, Roy Tov, Paul Eisen and others. We need them to be blowing the whistle on what is going on. We need the Palestinian Diaspora to realize that they have the power and antidote to the Israhell desease. We need universalist humans everywhere to realize that smiling faces tell lies. We need to be “anti-supremacist”. We need a lot of things, but most importantly we need to see clearly and be patient waiting for mistakes to be made, like attacking Alison Weir. Hopefully Plato’s Gun will surpass Mondoweiss that would be nice!

    • echinococcus says:

      northcascadian,

      Any non-religious (or even non-jewishly-religious) person with the appropriate heredity may be an ex-Jew, or recovering Jew. In most cases, though, that person will simply be a never-was-Jew.
      There is nothing there aside from religion and a fake, recently invented rabid racial/tribal nationalism that often goes together with a totally secular philosophy.

      There’s nothing to blow the whistle over, either. People who have never been inside cannot be insiders.
      Where it becomes hairy is with non-religious people who call themselves “Jewish” because of some biological connection. As far as they consider themselves still Jewish because of a “blood” bond, they prove that they are nationalists, even if they do not adhere to Zionism. That’s too close a relationship for comfort (i.e. Phil Weiss, for example, or Max Blumenthal, calling Zionists “my people”.)

  6. american200 says:

    Walid asks……

    “Why do Jewish groups have to fight the Palestinians’ battles for them? Shouldn’t it be Arab groups first and foremost with Palestinians at their head. ”

    First, Jews arent fighting the battle ‘for’ the Palestines, they are fighting the occupation battle ‘for’ Israel and the Jews because they think the occupation is going to be Israel’s undoing. That makes a huge difference in their ‘strategy ‘—think of it as having as a typical war opportunity to blow up all your enemy’s ammunition arsenal buildings and end a war but not doing so because it would kill a lot of civilians. They aren’t going to blow up all the political bs and hypocrisy because ….well…there are Jews in the building.

    Second, how are the Palestines going to get any platform in the US (or elsewhere) to take over their own cause when the I-Jews have check pointed all the media outlets?

    Third, the fucking Arab potentates have never done anything strong enough for the Palestines since their ’73 oil embargo because they are too busy either kissing US ass or using the US for their own royal agendas.

    Fourth, the Palestines don’t dare call out the duplicitous Jewish Peace groups cause they would be labeled ‘Jew haters’ if they so much as looked sideways at the Jews.

    The so called spokespeople for the Palestines like Abunimah are nothing but neutered eunuchs living in fear of losing their self serving tiny fame perches by incurring Jewish disapproval and being labeled anti semitic and kicked out. The JVP’s ‘control’ the Palestines they let in while pretending to be ‘inclusive’. Its bull shit.

    So who’s left? Only us, ordinary Americans, Brits, citizens any where.
    First escalate the fight, bulldoze their hypocritical asses and put them on the defense. Stay on them like a pack of hyenas on a lame animal.
    Second keep getting the Isr-USA-I/P facts out to the public because you have to get the public really pissed off to get them moving.
    The bigger the fight the more attention it will attract from the public. We ccant get on the msm to do but we can on the net at least.

    The Jewish groups count on people backing off them and not calling out their hypocrisy and questioning their motives ‘ just because they are Jews’
    Don’t back off, don’t make apologies, dont offer disclaimers about how you ‘really care about the Jews or their state or how you’re not a anti semite….just eviscerate their hypocritical crap the same way you eviscerate Israel’s hasbara crap.
    This is how your going to beat the right wing I-Fifth Column and the left wing GateKeepers column who also runs interference for Israel by gate keeping for the Jews.

    • “… how are the Palestinians going to get any platform in the US (or elsewhere) to take over their own cause when the I-Jews have check pointed all the media outlets?” (American)

      Calls have gone out in Palestine to the 4 million or so Palestinians to boycott Israel to give it a 20% kick in its economic power, but these half-hearted calls always ended in failure because Palestinians are actually happy with Israeli products as well as the home-grown or international cronyism they are comfortably living under. Taxi mentioned Godot a couple of times lately but if anyone is doing any waiting, its the Palestinians themselves. They have been allowing things to happen to them for 70 years but have never taken the opportunity to make things seriously happen. Pitying them has become stale; what they need is a good kick to the ass.

      • american200 says:

        From what I have read Israeli products are about all they have access to. I cant remember the specific study but it showed how much Israel made on Palestine consumers by restricting other countries imports into Palestine.

        And had a really in depot accounting of how much Israel made supplying all the materials for rebuilding every time they bombed Palestine/Gaza.

      • Ayatollah Khomeini and the “revolution” in Iran DID/does organize Muslims in a way that scares the crap out of Israel.
        That is what all the fuss is about over Iran.

        Iran’s leadership has been EFFECTIVE and PERSISTENT in saying, I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to take it any more.

        With weapons.

        Izzies cannot stand that infusion of self-confidence (and weapons) into the Palestinian Muslim world that Izzies have effectively castrated for generations.

  7. Denis says:

    In response to all of the invective directed against the Palestinians for not stepping up and fighting this fight themselves in America, there is one important rejoinder: they’re Palestinians. Mostly that means they’re Arabs. And mostly that means they’re Muslims. In the eyes of the mass of Americans — who are either stupidly Islamophobic or massively brain-did when it comes to I/P — being Arab and Muslim is a non-starter. Remember: out of 350 million Americans, 349 million believe the WTC was brought down by 19 Muslim Arabs. That makes all Arab Muslims, including Palestinians, the enemy in Ma and Pa Kettle’s eyes. I doubt whether a Palestinian will ever make much headway at the national level. If Ma and Pa don’t want to see/hear them, NBC ain’t gonna’ be talkin’ to them on Sunday morning.
    .
    I’m not saying American Palestinians don’t have a role. They have two extremely important local roles. First — and always foremost — is as Americans educating their fellow Americans on the cluster-fuck we call Israeli apartheid. Kate over at MW keeps a running inventory of incidents of the on-going genocide in the West Bank and Gaza. This is a huge source of information of the type that must be passed on to Ma and Pa. They will get it when 18 month old babies are burned to death. Eventually, they will get it.
    .
    The second role American Palestinians have to play is as victims of all of the iJew violence against them from the Nakba to Protective Edge and whatever comes next. Word-of-mouth, letters to editors, blogs/blog comments — there are enough Palestinian Americans to make a lot of noise. I’m talkin’ individually. You don’t need to belong to an organization to tell people what is happening to your relatives in Nablus.
    .
    Along this line, Alison, with her billboards and personal appearances, is doing more to reach grass-roots Americans than anyone else in this fight, except Pam Geller, who is using the same tactics with iJew funding. Send money to If Americans Knew if you want to have a physical, real-world impact that goes beyond sitting at your keyboard.
    .
    The only other worthwhile grass-roots strategy IMO is to go after the i-firster politicians at the voting booth. Know how your representative and senator votes on the GoI issues; know how many shekels they get; keep track of when they go to Israel and who pays. Spread this information around locally. Americans hate influence-peddling unless they are the ones doing the peddling or profiting from it.
    .
    The point here is important: the votes-for-shekels game has to be turned around. Americans have to understand that shekels are destroying America’s political system. That Bibi-goes-to-Congress debacle was a first step in getting Americans to say “WTF is going on???”
    .
    Look behind Citizens United and you will find Jews — and I’m not talkin’ the ones on the USSCt bench. I’m talkin AIPAC and Israel. Americans have to be told who the i-firster politicians are before they can learn to loath them. “AIPAC” and “shekel” have to become dirty words in American politics. Use the word “shekel” — in one word it sums up the whole problem. Eventually the politicians who suck AIPAC’s ass and who take Bibi’s shekels will wish they never had, and the new politicians who take their place never will.
    .
    Finally, a more insidious suggestion: play the sectarian Jew card. Follow me on this one.
    .
    The iJews have been masters of this game for the 50 years I’ve been watching the ME destroy itself. GoI has played the Sunnis against the Shia like a puppet-master jerking the strings of two dummies, and it has been hugely successful, not just in Palestine but all across the ME. But the iJews are susceptible to the same divisive tactics if you know the history.
    .
    The problems in Palestine have almost been exclusively produced and perpetrated by Ashkenazi Jews — who, ever since the diaspora, have never been able to live side by side with Arabs, and never will. That’s why they ended up in E. Europe. It was the Ashkenazis who came pouring into Palestine in the 1930’s-40’s — from Russia, Ukraine, Poland, &etc., but mostly from Russia. A nasty group of Jews if ever there was one. For instance, Google the Yakov Yurovsky, Ukraine Holocaust, Kaganovitch, and Yagoda for examples of pre-Palestine Ashkenazi terrorism.
    .
    All of the Jewish terrorist groups in Palestine were Eastern European Ashkenazi — Haganah, Stern Gang, Irgun, which was the predecessor of today’s Likund Party. I have asked many people and no one has ever identified a single Sehpardi terrorist group. When Helen Thomas famously said “they should go back to wherever the hell they came from,” she meant Russia.
    .
    The Sephardi/Mizrahim Jews, by contrast, are virtually defined by their thousands of years of living in productive and peaceful symbiotic relations with Arabs. Most famous of all was the Golden Era of Andalusia on the Iberian Pen. — for hundreds of years Jews and Arabs together produced one of the most intellectually and culturally productive civilizations in the history of the entire species. This is the dream we should all have for Palestine, but it ain’t gonna’ happen with Ashkenazis like Bibi and the boys in control.
    .
    The political point is that this is a sectarian card that can, and should, be played in the same way the iJews play the Sunni and Shia against each other. Americans — dim witted as most of them seem to be considering Trump’s popularity — need a bad guy. They need to see that within the larger world of Judaism, there is this gang of thugs — the Ashkenazi — who were responsible for 10 million dead Ukrainians under Stalin and then started destroying the Palestinians and their land in the 1930s. It is not about Jews, that would be antisemitic. It’s about Ashkenazis, and that sounds vaguely evil, probably not by coincidence.
    .
    My message is that there is a lot to be done on the local level. If your Congressperson is an AIPAC ass-kisser do everything in your power to get rid of him/her. Quit worrying about the powerful i-firsters like Schumer and Menendez if they aren’t your Congressmen. Go after your own — after all, they all have just one vote. Do what you can to make AIPAC a dirty word in your district. Read up and spread the word on the nasty, bloody, violent history of the Ashkenazi, and the way the Sephardi/Mizrahim and Palestinians could probably work together to turn Palestine into an amazing place if they were given the chance.
    .
    Dream. Read. Then kick some ass locally.

    • Some interesting ideas, Denis. And about “playing the sectarian card” – I for one would find that a little hard to do in person. I don’t have a problem with being combative when need be, but to promote sectarianism within the jewish community, or within any community really, is against my… well, principles. There are already sectarian fissures and gulfs within the israeli jewish community – and that has been getting worse, but in an organic way. I don’t know that you’d need to feed that fire – it’s kinda already being fed by extremist jews themselves.

      But I do like the idea of referencing, separating if you like, the ashkenazim from the rest of the minority jews in israel. The whole Greater Israel thing is an ashkenazim project brought to Palestine on European boats. And it is this very Greater Israel project that is at the root of the ongoing occupation.

      • Taxi, I’m not disparaging BDS and still support it whenever I can, but I still look on it as somewhat like petting that doesn’t lead to anywhere serious. On the WB alone, there are over 70,000 policemen employed by and beholden to the PA to keep a watchful eye over the poor defenseless Israelis, They act as a first line of defense against any insurgency against Israel. During last summer’s prelude to the assault on Gaza, there was an assault on the West Bank that was conducted with the full cooperation of the PA force. What to expect from the Palestinians when their own leaders are holding them down?

      • I don’t consider the PA as Palestinian activists – they are a very costly gang of nightclub bouncers.

        And I get you, Walid, my hopes at BDS’s effectiveness is lukewarm. But I do get very excited when they score their victories.

        Yes, everyone needs to clean house. Including me.

      • Denis says:

        Taxi, here’s Silverstein yesterday w/ a piece on Palestinian rapper Jowan Safadi pushing the Ashkenazi/Mizahim divide.
        .
        http://www.richardsilverstein.com/2015/08/20/israeli-palestinian-musicians-subversive-critique-of-mizrahi-politics-culture/
        .
        To me, it is incredibly important that Americans realize that it was almost exclusively nasty Russian Jews who took over Palestine by terrorism and violence, and it is the descendants of those same nasty Russian Jews (i.e., Likund) who control the dialog in Israeli (and American) politics. And it is equally important to distinguish those Jews from the ones with Arab connections and/or roots.
        .
        The whole Fiddler on the Roof image that American goyim have of benign, dancing Russian Jews has got to be replaced with a more realistic and up to date image indicating how vile some of these people are — like the image of IDF Lt. Col. Shalom Eisner, a Russian Ashkenazi, viciously whacking a Danish reporter in the face with the butt of his rifle.
        .
        Explain to Americans that these are Russian Jews causing the problems, and Americans’ ears will prick up. imo.

      • How right you are on all your points, Denis.

        The strategy should be to divide them up before they cleave us asunder. I just don’t know how that is doable. I’m not saying it’s impossible – I’m asking how does one do that? What actions would be undertaken etc.

    • ‘I’m not saying American Palestinians don’t have a role. They have two extremely important local roles. First — and always foremost — is as Americans educating their fellow Americans on the cluster-fuck we call Israeli apartheid. ” (Denis)

      It’s said that Palestinian ex-pats are the most educated of all Arab ex-pats , which leads you to assume that they are relatively well-off. What are these luckier ones doing to actually help Palestine other than sending money relatives that end up in the Israeli economy? There are lots of Palestinian millionaires in the world but we never hear of them actually doing anything to help the Palestinians back home.

      There area few exceptions of course; some senior Palestinian politicians once opened gambling casino on the West Bank in partnership with Israelis; it was actually built as a fun place for Israelis as very few Palestinians were allowed in. and another instance when American-Palestinians like the Masri family that’s into a partnership with Qatar and Israel to build the huge upscale Rawabi village on the WB with all building materials imported from Israel. Ironically, Rawabi is the only housing development on the WB to be allowed to have red-tiled roofs like Israeli settlements, which signal to the Israeli air force which buildings to never bomb. Rawabi is built identically to settlement on a hill in a semi-circle one over a valley and can easily pass for an Israel settlement.

      • Walid,

        What you say about Palestinian passivity is true. I explain this as Palestinian loss of faith in any ‘system’ that promises them freedom and true justice. Deep down inside, they know that what was taken from them by force must be taken back by force.

        Not to underestimate the growing power of BDS or the valuable messaging of it, but after 70 years of brutal occupation, you go ask Palestinians in person whether BDS or armed resistance would be the ultimate savior and they will in their majority reply: armed resistance. There is by far more support for armed resistance than there is for BDS.

        I don’t fault them for arriving at this conclusion.

      • Danaa says:

        Walid, I understand what you are saying about the Palestinians, and also what Taxi refers to as their “passivity”. I am with you being often disappointed at the way the PA seems almost too eager to do its master’s bidding in policing the WB. And the corruption and rise of an oligarch class in places like Ramallah and misguided efforts that bring casinos to a place where many are losing their lands. All very disconcerting.

        But, and its a big “but”. To live under occupation for so long, effectively as a defeated people, is not something we, who live in freedom, and have not been defeated, can process, or not easily. Yes, to us it may seem they could do a lot of things that would add up to resistance. And some do, indeed many, often as a result of direct provocation. Alas, the occupiers in this case are israelis, who day and night conceive of ways to undermine, derail and dissipate any form of resistance. To the israelis, it’s all about breaking the spirit of the people of Palestine. In the WB they do this by ensuring, for example, that any slight bend towards resistance, however minor, like boycotting Israeli goods, is met with a countermeasure. IT’s easy to see how they apply those. IF Palestinians try to boycott Israeli goods, then it can be made that much more difficult to import or grow or make alternatives. If Palestinians build a little theatre in Jenin, mysteriously, the director gets gunned down – supposedly by some Palestinian conservative. Oh sure….

        In Gaza, where the Palerstinians do not have to come face to face with their tormentors every day, people can keep their pride, but at the cost of being deprived of liberty, freedom of movement and often life, when the periodic bombing runs happen.

        Basically israel will do anything and everything to make sure that the basics of survival and living making become difficult enough that they consume most of the spare energy of individual people and families. That’s a trick mastered in many prisons and internment camps – bring it all down to the basics of keeping one’s head above the water. If anyone gets a bit too uppity, they have ways of playing whack a mole. Be they students who dare to dream, a small business owner who shows a bit too much pride, a would-be Palestinian oligarch who wants to do his own thing without the stamp of approval.

        So, blaming Palestinians for not doing more is one thing. Finding ways of helping them do more is another. And its the latter I prefer to concentrate my own efforts on. Right now, any action that helps the spirit of the people is welcome. be they the western activists who do manage to make their way to the WB, finding ways of connecting on the internet in a way that circumvents the all-seeing Israeli cyber police, or clever ideas that can help actions like boycott.

        And Taxi, while armed resistance may seem like one way to respond, unfortunately I put nothing past the Israelis in suppressing it. They have put many systems in place that would make that difficult to get off the ground. So, I don’t recommend it even if i see the desire for that course of action. You can see for yourself how easily they kill anyone they catch. No compunction whatsoever. No need for trial or lawful detention.

        For me, it seems that these years since the second intifadah were years of waiting. The Palestinians may have come to see their best option as persevering, untll an opening shows itself. Not lose their spirit completely but also not give israel too much cause for even more heavy-handed oppression. WE, on the outside, who have no way yet of how to relieve the occupation, we can help by doing the many small and large things that help the Palestinians keep their spirits and hope up. As some people do. As I can only wish I could do more.

      • (Hey Danaa, I’m reading you’re all the rage at MW – heh. They’re ready to vote you in as president – but for the snag of being born in israel. They’re now plotting behind your back to vote you in as Madam Secretary of State. Bummer!)

      • Danaa says:

        Taxi, a bit embarrassing…..plus my head got so big, I had trouble get it and myself through the door. May need to do something to deflate — not healthy – the big head. Plus doesn’t look so good with summer clothes.

      • Danaa,

        You gotta admit that a big head looks the absolute worst on a nude.

        But seriously, you deserve all the praise and more – and more!

        (Say, I just tried to find your praise-worthy post on MW to share your brilliant ideas with Plato’s readers – but alas I’m befuddled and lost in the MW archives. Possible please for you to post it in a clean comment box here? When you have the time, of course. Would very much appreciate it.).

        And regarding armed resistance in occupied Palestine. Don’t you worry – I have it on good authority that it just gets bigger in size and bigger in guns. It’s not a dormant lot – it’s an underground lot. This means, when push comes to shove, they will do what is necessary. From Gaza, we have learned that the idf would rather kill a thousand babies to punish a single resistor. This is a failed tactic (ICC hounds sniffing around israel now), and a failed strategy (the idf cannot crush resistance and the proof is everywhere in secret tunnels and in the hearts of every Palestinian).

        I support all forms of legitimate resistance, peaceful and armed.

    • Danaa says:

      Interesting thoughts, Denis. Alas, it’s harder than you think for outsider to sow discord among the jewish (Israelis) – they see it coming from miles away and instantly huddle together.

      But here’s the thing – the best thing to do is nothing – other than advertise the religious-secular divide. This is the deepest and least bridgeable gap in Israeli society, the one they can’t cover up or want to. The ultra-religious are growing by leaps and bounds – and as they do the pressures on housing and social services grow exponentially. Even as the ultra-orthodox segment contributes nil to the overall economy as most of the men do not actually work – they go to the yeshiva, there to study the Torah and argue with each other on finer Talmudic points that have something close to zero relevance to modern life. It’s often the women who earn the living, even as they give birth to baby after baby.

      Naturally, israelis are not deaf and blind and there are attempts to bring both men and women into the working force, as well as continuing attempts to draft them into the army. But this is an extremely slow process and in the meantime, the ultra-religious and the ultra-secular communities grow further apart by the day.

      Real numbers are not made available and demographic statistics such as you get officially are not trustworthy. The estimate is, however that there are over 20-25% ultra-orthodox in the jewish population (or considered jewish), which is slated, y all accounts to increase to well over 30% in less than 10 years. That’s based on children currently in that school system.

      Not far behind are the orthodox and observant of all stripes, including the nationalist orthodox who are filling up the settlements. This is the most aggressive group – both politically and socially. israel thinks it ‘cleverly’ solved the “problem” by diverting members of this group to the west bank settlements, but this is going to work only so long, and in the meantime, there is a demographic time bomb waiting to go off.

      One prediction I made in the past is that the seculars – now mostly concentrated along the coast may eventually feel the need to ally with secular-minded Israeli Arabs just to maintain their influence politically. It’s possible, especially as it is the seculars who are generally migrating out of the country so their numbers continue to dwindle, relatively speaking. At the same time, the preponderance of immigration into israel is composed of various religious jews – from US, UK< france etc. The Russian migration has now come to an almost complete halt. If anything, there are Russians and young descendants who are beginning to exlore returning to russia and other ex soviet block countries.

      I wish i could say the Palestinians will benefit in the short term. Alas, things will get worse for them before they get better. Israel decided it needs the majority of the West bank and nothing will stop them from continuing to eat into area C. They would have annexed it already if not for the worry from the world’s backlash. But they will in all likelihood do just that. In about 5 years, when the government will have moved further to the right. That’s what the Palestinians should prepare for, IMO< and that’s what needs to be fought in the near-term by their supporters abroad.

      Sorry for my pessimism. I’m just being a realist. To counter the depressing trends, itty-bitty jewish run organizations like JVP will simply not suffice. Not if we want BDS to go bigger, much bigger.

      More ideas on that, some other time.

    • “Remember: out of 350 million Americans, 349 million believe the WTC was brought down by 19 Muslim Arabs. That makes all Arab Muslims, including Palestinians, the enemy in Ma and Pa Kettle’s eyes.”

      Bullshit. I believe that the WTC was brought down by 19 Muslim Arabs. This in no way implies that I think “all Arab Muslims, including Palestinians” are the enemy. Denis’s comment is a particularly clear example of the stupidity, falsehood, divisiveness, and harmfulness, of the 9/11 Truth movement.

      • “Denis’s comment is a particularly clear example of the stupidity, falsehood, divisiveness, and harmfulness, of the 9/11 Truth movement.”

        The above applies to your POV too, Jay. Especially that you don’t provide examples of what you say is ‘stupid, false, divisive, and harmful’. You provide nothing but bombastic opinion on this.

        Point is, we are all looking for undeniable evidence to form a factual picture, seeing that the official story is not so very intellectually satisfying. Looking to just prove one’s POV on 9/11 is not sufficient or helpful to the “9/11 Truth movement” either..

      • Denis says:

        Oh, now there is a brilliant, articulate rejoinder. Thanks for sharing your open-mindedness with us, Jay. Good to know that not every last person in America is a bigot. Are you from Oklahoma? Texas? The odds suggest probably not. You need to go to Tulsa, order a beer in a cowboy/biker bar and share your open-mindedness and affection for Muslim Arabs with the clientele. I’ll wait outside with the getaway car running.
        .
        I was not commenting directly or indirectly on the “truth” about 9/11. I was clearly commenting on what most Americans believe and how that will limit the ability of Arabs to become leaders of anti-GoI movements in America. Americans believe that Muslim Arabs attacked America; consequently, you will not be seeing a Muslim Arab as a national political personality for many years.
        .
        Regardless of your own commendable open-mindness, you don’t represent the majority of Americans, much less RedState Americans, who need to be enlightened as to Israeli apartheid in order for America to change direction. That is going to require political leadership; unfortunately, Palestinians and other Muslim Arabs in this country are not currently in a position to be effective leaders for the frightened, bigoted American mainstream. But at least we all are now fully apprised that Jay Knott is neither frightened nor bigoted, and I, for one, will be sleeping better knowing that.
        .
        How many years after Pearl Harbor was it before a Japanese American was elected to Congress or as a governor? I know people of my parent’s generation who will still not by a Japanese car. My guess is that it will be another century before an American of Japanese decent has a chance of winning the WH. It will be 2 centuries before a Muslim American of Arab descent does.
        .
        It is sad but true that national hatred and xenophobia preclude huge numbers of Americans from ever becoming the sort of national political figures we need to shut down the GoI cluster fuck in Palestine. But that’s democracy. And that was my point. Sorry you missed it.

      • RudyM says:

        “Denis’s comment is a particularly clear example of the stupidity, falsehood, divisiveness, and harmfulness, of the 9/11 Truth movement.”

        So you’re taking his generalization and using it to make a generalization against 9/11 truth in general?

        I don’t think everyone who believes the official 9/11 story is anti-Arab. I believed it for a few years myself, and was still opposed to the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq, at the same time. The 9/11 truth movement is not one monolithic thing.

      • RudyM says:

        9/11 was unequivocally a false flag operation and the truth matters, divisive or not. The official story is a fabric of nothing but holes.

        Keep saying “structural collapse” to describe a building turning mostly to dust in mid-air.

      • In order to react to 9/11 by thinking “all Arab Muslims, including Palestinians” are “the enemy”, you would have to be bigoted against them in the first place. Trying to convince “Ma and Pa Kettle” that the planes were remote-controlled by Israelis, and WTC 7 was brought down by explosives in an insurance scam, won’t change their minds about Muslims, if they don’t like them anyway.

        My comment about the “stupidity, falsehood, divisiveness, and harmfulness, of the 9/11 Truth movement” is based on my experience of consistently being called a “Zionist” by truthers, because I don’t believe their party line.

      • Calling you a “zionist” – that’s crazy! If anything, Jay, you’re more of a socialist iconoclast. Wild guess here.

        But you gotta chill on other people’s 9/11 take – that can easily get you misunderstood. For instance, I hardly see a difference between what you’re saying about 9/11 and Denis’ take on it. But you did jump the gun on him for no good reason and without explanation. It would benefit your argument to criticize specifics instead of just a generalized attack on people’s intelligence as a whole.

  8. Boomer, an MW blogger, wrote Danaa an interesting post on MW. I’m sharing it here because I think it has value and a good link attached to it too:

    -BEGIN BOOMER’S POST TO DANAA-

    Boomer commented on Roundtable on the Palestinian solidarity movement and Alison Weir.

    Danaa,

    Thanks for your informed and insightful comment, which you conclude by emphasizing what should be the central goal, something that too often gets lost here (and in American discourse generally):

    “– not to save the jews, who obviously need no saving at this point, but to save the Palestinians, who obviously do.”

    Ten years ago an interesting plan to help Palestinians was published by the RAND Corporation. It was called “The Arc.” http://friendsofthearc.org By then I had become discouraged about prospects for constructive change, but this seemed like something that most Americans and others outside Israel could support, and many people in Israel could support too. Regardless of whether there was to be one state or two, it would be helpful. The plan received a little publicity, in the NY Times and elsewhere.

    It would be a “win-win” for all residents of the region. It could be financed with a fraction of what the U.S. gives to Israel. Using some of what we give Israel for this purpose would not really be hurting Jewish Israelis, because they would benefit too. (Actually, they would benefit more from peace and prosperity in the region than from some additional fighter jets.)

    I understood that some right-wing Israelis would not like to give anything to Palestinians, nor would they want to concede that Palestinians had a right to remain where they are. But I thought that the US would welcome such a plan, and the UN too. Together with like-minded people in the region, something like the Arc seemed desirable and doable.

    But Israel started another “war.” (I put it in quotes because the disproportion in power between Israel and its neighbors makes the word “war” inappropriate.) Bush, then Obama, defended Israel’s “right to defend itself,” and used America’s veto at the UN to preclude action on behalf of the Palestinians. The “Arc” proposal was quickly forgotten.

    I still find it hard to believe that our politicians behave as they do. I still think that there is a silent majority of Americans who would welcome any constructive steps to help the Palestinians, and to reduce American complicity in their oppression.

  9. Danaa says:

    Taxi, per your special request – I hope the links work:

    On the poor little big elephant that smell up the “peace” room:

    http://mondoweiss.net/2015/08/roundtable-palestinian-solidarity#comment-791006

    The comment that got me nominated (not elected!!) as president/SoS (luckily, ain’t gonna happen since you’ll know where i stand when it comes to cats vs humans):

    http://mondoweiss.net/2015/08/roundtable-palestinian-solidarity#comment-791642

    Also FYI from later today, the thread on the black activists’ letter (where jhitchcock popped up like a jack-in-the-box)– the theme I’ve been wanting to talk about for some time, and think we should – the likely enormous pressure put on Palestinian activist leaders. It’s tough for them who are out front – they must renounce the ‘anti-semites” selected for them from a special menu, courtesy of JVP, JSF and like-minded jewish groups/bloggers. If they resist or demure, why, all kind of support can be withdrawn in an instant. I suspect, they issue these Herem-supporting endorsement swith a view towards the greater good. I can only hope they (meaning people like Abunimah and Barghoutti) are starting to realize that it’s a bottomless pit, because it won’t end with Greta Berlin, or Atzmon or Weir or any other “anti-semite-de-jour”. May be Mondoweiss is next, who knows. The real target is, you know, them who try to call out the elephant and perhaps putting it to pasture, ie, all of us here, and the vast majority of MW readers and supporters (including many Jewish ones!).

    http://mondoweiss.net/2015/08/activists-supporting-palestinian#comment-791825

  10. One concrete idea to assist AW::

    Someone or someones need to immediately, if not sooner, volunteer to ** update her website **.

    It’s shockingly out-of-date, amateurish, and disorganized. It’s so bad that it negatively reflects upon her work, vision, and effort, which does nothing for her legitimacy. In 2015, no one can be taken seriously who has a website like that.

    I imagine that she and her shoestring staff haven’t had the time, money, and/or skills to have done anything but keep adding on to the original but it’s “all wrong”.

    The layout and graphics need to be polished and professional, clear, crisp, and functional. Does it matter what her site looks like? Hell, yes, it does.

    • ‘Editor’ feature coming to your screens soon. Like early next week. Yippee! If you want me to edit on your behalf in the meantime, I’d be happy to – just say the word.

      And I agree with you about updating AW’s site for a bundle of obvious reason. Maybe they can stick a prominent ‘Help, Tec Needed’ sign up on their site. That would be the first thing they would need to do.

      Thanks for visiting Plato’s and for your practical and important idea, Megan.

  11. HEY EVERYBODY – I HAVE AN IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT:

    Just wanted to let you all know that i have a tec working on Plato’s this weekend and there ‘may be’ some temporary interruptions in access here and there – hopefully not, but you never know. If the site is unavailable, then please check back again.

    Most of the work being done on Plato’s is to accommodate visiting bloggers – providing the blogger with more tools, edit button etc. Aiming to give the blogging visitor a more pleasant and empowering experience.

  12. RudyM says:

    Any person who honestly examines the case against the official 9/11 story and comes away still believing in it, is either psychologically blinkered or moronic.

    • “Any person who honestly examines the case against the official 9/11 story and comes away still believing in it, is either psychologically blinkered or moronic.”

      Right on cue! RudyM confirms my analysis.

      • seanmcbride says:

        Jay Knott,

        Everyone I know who has reviewed the basic facts about 9/11 has found the official story to be not credible in dozens of important ways — and none of them are conspiracy theorists.

        This is a no-brainer.

      • seanmcbride says:

        Jay Knott,

        Those who find the 9/11 official to be not credible occupy a wide range of positions on the political spectrum. The main issue here is uncovering the truth about 9/11.

        Most of the 9/11 skeptics I know aren’t dogmatic about anything — quite the contrary. They simply want to get all the facts about 9/11 in order and understand what really happened.

  13. giulio says:

    I know there are many other ants biting the elephant. I don’t know their names,nor do I know where they are attacking,or when.It can’t matter to me.
    I must do my part without that information. When the elephant falls,and our
    work is done,perhaps we may gather and thank one another. Until that
    point is reached,everything that isn’t an attack is surrender. If you don’t
    know where to begin,I suggest starting very low to the ground.
    One of my preferred routes is “punking” people out of the movie theater
    and out from in front of the TV. This cleans their heads out and gives them
    lots of time and energy. Then, I ask that they take a newspaper and “tally”
    the names and places referred to in the “news” and “opinion” sections.
    This is a real mind-opener for many. It’s as if there is only one place
    on earth that matters, and only one people that count. From there we go
    to the “finance” page and look into what’s “hot” and who owns it.
    With all that in hand,it is easy to show who is paying for what.
    When that occurs,there is astonishment,then anger, then….more ants.

    • Heh – thanks for your show-and-tell approach – yeah that works! So many ants to lasso, so little time.

      I recommend people try guilio’s approach on a single person: a friend or a family member – maybe even a stranger in a dive bar. Let us know how it goes.

      And hey: welcome to Plato’s, guilio!

  14. giulio says:

    Or just talk about it on-line until everyone is blue in the face.
    I’ve many Latinos and “Brothers” looking at things differently.
    I love your direction,and your readers are tuned-in,for sure.
    But we need “the street”. Not everyone needs to worry about
    what MW says,or AA, or JVP. That’s up in the clouds somewhat,eh?

  15. giulio says:

    Glad to provide a bit of levity here. Perhaps I’ll just move along now and let everyone sink back into their myopia. For sure the most important thing is to endlessly hash out the inner workings of a select few,rather obscure,on-line
    communities and their byzantine relationships with each other.
    I read about a meeting of “Democracy Now” in Greece not long ago.
    The author said that it began well but then devolved into a rather contentious
    debate that,while off-subject a bit nonetheless,succeeded in
    “leveling the playing field between the sausage factory and the Ivory Tower.”
    Yeah,it stinks down here,but it has it’s rewards. Had any of you seen the
    light bulbs that came on when I put up a picture in my office of
    Christiane Renaldo holding a sign that said “Todos Con Palestine”, I
    think you’d have appreciated my method a bit more.
    And now some of these same people are seeing the connection between
    Argentina’s money”problems” and Puerto Rico’s and,for me,it’s thrilling.
    I think AW would also be thrilled. These people are Americans too and are
    beginning to learn the truth.Isn’t that her whole purpose?
    Adios,amigos! Keep up the extra-fine work!

  16. giulio says:

    correction; I meant “Democracy Rising”
    correction; After reading “Israel’s Last Resort” I will STFU forever on this site
    but I will read it religiously. Taxi; My apologies. I hadn’t read enough to make
    any noise at all. What you do is very important and you do it extremely well.
    Thank you. oorah!

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